Saturday, October 6, 2012

Good Morning Hippie!

I woke up this morning to an interesting comment posted here at Tom Paine's Ghost. My old friend Troy decided it was time to let me know how appalling my support for Obama is. Troy is a good guy, a hard worker, a veteran, a family-man and a friend. I have a lot of respect for him and I am glad he has decided to engage in discourse here with us. Troy is mainly responding to a video I posted of the speech Obama delivered to the United Nations just a few weeks after the attacks on the US embassy in Libya. I will re-post his entire comment here and add my rebuttals in this green font as I think of them. Feel free to jump in and add to the conversation. OK, here we go...

Kris, Kris, Kris, for a “Freethinker’s Cove” I’m afraid you check your brain at the door and allow your far-left ideology and infatuation with Obama to rule over reality and reason!

I agree, the first 5-10 minutes of Obama’s speech was admirable and I appreciated listening to the short biographies of the Americans who lost their lives in the service of our country. But he quickly losses me when he starts making excuses for Muslims:

“Let us remember that Muslims have suffered the most at the hands of extremism.”

Really? What about the thousands of Americans who died at the hands of Muslim extremists on 9/11(
2,606 people died in New York City in the World Trade Center and on the ground, 125 died at the Pentagon, and 44 people died in Shanksville, PA.) and their family members or the thousands of soldiers who have died from Muslim extremists to give Iraq (4,488 dead US Troops) and Afghanistan (1,957 dead US troops) a fresh start from tyranny and repression. What about the family members of the deceased still suffering from their losses? 

Each and every human life lost in war is deplorable. I am not saying and I don't think Obama is saying that a Muslim mother who loses her son in war suffers any more or less than an American mother who loses her son. Consider this, it has been estimated that anywhere from 28,000 to 42,000 people have lost their lives in Syria alone since the beginning of the civil war there in 2011, LAST YEAR. So lets take the US deaths from 9/11 and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and add them together = 9,220. Do I think Obama could have used more precise language when saying "that Muslims have suffered the most at the hands of extremism" Yes, I do. And being a bean counter when it comes to human life is a terrible thing to do. Every human life is invaluable, But I hardly consider the statement you quoted as Obama apologizing to moderate Muslims. He was attempting to give the world some perspective on the consequences and geography of terrorism.

Is it really enlightenment and tolerance to make excuses and apologize for these people? I think it is the highest form of enlightenment and tolerance to empathize with any group of people that is different from your own. I agree the Muslim community as a whole suffers from the extremists that use their religion for power. If you agree with this then you agree with what Obama said in the speech to the UN. The moderate Muslim’s in this world have to outnumber the extremists by millions. I don’t see them policing their own nearly enough if ever (What about Turkey? They still belong to NATO, have a strong military, and have a record of using military force against bad neighbors- ex: last week and Syria). Why doesn’t Obama apologize to America about his failed economic policies  or his failure to protect our citizen’s in foreign embassies?

What’s even worse is that the whole video excuse is a farce and a distraction from the fact that the Obama Administration dropped the ball on securing the US Embassy in Libya. I agree with this, just as I agree that the Bush administration dropped the ball on securing the World Trade Center on 9/11 But I am not a conspiracy theorist. I can sit here and complain all day that more was not done to prevent 9/11 but that does not mean I think Bush somehow caused 9/11 to happen, just as I do not think Obama somehow caused the attacks on the US embassy in Benghazi to happen. Terrorism exists and we need to be vigilant. I agree with this stance. Do you really think that a spontaneous riot would conveniently erupt on 9/11 from a video that was posted on the internet back in July? If that is the case Bill Maher’s “Religulous” would have started WWIII sometime in the past few years don’t you think? I don’t remember any backlash from that movie.

Liberalism, progressivism, whatever you want to call it, is zapping all the motivation, inspiration, ingenuity and drive out this country. The Obamaphone Lady in Cleveland, OH is a great example of where this country is heading under the leadership of President Obama:

Four years ago I would never have imagined myself thinking that I wish George W. Bush was still in office, but here I am thinking just that. It is appalling to me to see you idolizing Barack Obama like you do. Kris, where’s the hope and change he promised? Where’s the transparency (Here , the honesty and the openness? I have seen nothing but lies, deception and closed doors for the past four years. It is disgusting to me to see the President of the United States let other countries tell us what to do, especially China and Russia, or make excuses for my country in the name of tolerance and good-will. Kris, you’re an intelligent man. Why is it so hard for you to open your eyes and see the wrong this administration is doing to our country? What really has this man done in the past four years as president? (Yes, what has Obama done?) Please don’t answer with he killed Osama…

I tried to be as good as possible, I promise! I just hate to see an old friend wander down the wrong path. I appreciate your concern :) Miss you brother. How is your new family?


tompainesghost said...

Troy has left a new comment on your post "Night Skies - Yosemite":

Good to see you are still a good-natured fella, and thanks for the compliments! You’re not too bad of a guy yourself; it’s just unfortunate that you have become so mindless when it comes to your ideology. Maybe your uncle will talk some sense into one of these days!

Fine, so a certain segment of the Muslim community loves to kill their own people or any people for that matter, I agree with that. But that doesn’t mean we have to continue to make excuses for them. I’m not a Muslim hater. I believe in our founder’s belief that all citizens should be free to practice whatever religion than see fit. I’m sure there are millions of them across the planet that are peaceful law-abiding people. But what’s wrong with condemning the attacks immediately without making excuses for the terrorist? Why do with have to emphasize with them? Why do we have to spend thousands of dollars on advertisements on Arab TV stations apologizing to the Muslim community? Sure there was a lapse of security from both administrations. At least Bush didn’t run around begging for forgiveness from the world for our country’s belief in the freedom of speech. Maybe Obama said some of that to a certain extent, but it took him three weeks to do it. The president doesn’t need to emphasize with terrorists period, whether he is trying to be enlightened or not. I’d rather have a leader who stands behind his country and its founding principles rather than apologize for them. And it’s not a conspiracy that the 9/11/12 attack on our embassy was a planned attack against the USA.

Sure Turkey attacks Syria when its own people start dying. Where was Turkey during the Iraq war when we were trying to ouster a regime that had previously killed thousands of Muslims and Kurdish people, and continued to oppress the vast majority of its people?

Good try Kris, but I think you are falling short on this discussion, somewhat like the president did in the debate a few nights ago!

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to post thoughts outside of the standard praise and worship of everything Obama! (I’m referring to your glowing diatribe of Obama video at Horsetoothe among others).

tompainesghost said...

Troy you keep mentioning that Obama has been apologizing for terrorism. I need some evidence for this. Statements from the UN speech like
"There should be no doubt that we will be relentless in tracking down the killers and bringing them to justice."


"Today we must reaffirm that our future will be determined by people like Chris Stevens, and not by his killers. Today we must declare that this violence and intolerance has no place among our united nations."


"we again declare that the regime of Bashar al-Assad must come to an end so that the suffering of the Syrian people can stop and a new dawn can begin"


"It is time to marginalize those who, even when not directly resorting to violence, use hatred of America or the West or Israel as the central organizing principle of politics, for that only gives cover and sometimes makes an excuse for those who do resort to violence. That brand of politics, one that pits East against West and South against North, Muslims against Christians and Hindu and Jews, can't deliver on the promise of freedom."

If you can give me one concrete quote from this entire speech which shows Obama apologize for terrorism please share it here.

Troy said...


Sorry for the delay, I don't sit down in front of my computer much more than I have to!

I'm not sure I ever specificly said that he was apologizing for terrorism. I'm pretty sure in my last comment I said that some of what he said was applaudable. It was just too bad that it took him more than two weeks to say it.

However, blaming a stupid youtube video for the attacks for over a week despite the fact that our intelligence agency and the Libyan government clear knew and stated openly that it was a planned terrorist attact is shameful. It excuses terrorism for political gain, and is just disgusting. In my humble opinion.

I think that the administration's inability to even say the word terrorism, excuses terrorism. Take his speech to the UN. He uses the work extremists five times. He, accidentally I'm sure, said terrorist group one time! Isn't extremist the same term used to classify the tea party and other right wingers?

So maybe apologize isn't the correct word, but I think that is beside the fact.

I just noticed your WTF has Obama done link. (yeah I'm usually a bit slow to the punch lines!) Anyway I love it!

Troy said...

What's up with the racism and Fox News label? I pretty sure I haven't mentioned anything about racism or Fox News.

This must be one of those things were if you criticize the president you are a racist. Or maybe it's not politically correct to criticize segments of the Muslim community. Don't worry about offending Christians, Jews, Mormons and their beliefs, but by all means let's never say anything disagreable about the Muslim Faith.

A brief scan of your "religion" tag doesn't bring up a single post about the intolerance that is in the Islamic faith. Why not talk about shariah law and how women in most Muslim countries will never be treated or have the respect that human beings should have. Nope, just post after post bashing Christianity.

I'm sorry if I pissed you off with my "worshipping Obama" comment, but to tag my comments so they fall in line with the same bullshit as some idiot who hangs an empty chair from a tree is a little below the belt don't you think?

I guess that's one way to keep disagreeing thoughts out of the free-thinkers cove.

tompainesghost said...

Hi Troy!
First off I am not labeling you personally a racist. But I do feel fully justified labeling that post "Racism" and "Fox News"

How can I possibly justify this?

You asked... "What's up with the racism and Fox News label? I pretty sure I haven't mentioned anything about racism or Fox News."

True, but please tell me where you first heard about that video you linked and I then embedded? The Obama-Phone-lady video is the reason I labeled the post racist. I should have added Drudge Report because that is who initially posted the video on you tube. But Fox has a wider audience and they along with tea party Super PACS have been using that video to promote the false idea that Obama gives away free phones to angry black people.

I am certainly not the first person in the media to link the Obama-Phone meme with racism and Fox news - see for yourself -

As far as your next criticism about only insulting some religions but not Islam. I take your point. I will strive to be a more equal opportunity atheist in the future. I think I have focused on battling narrow-minded Christians the most because, geographically that is who I am surrounded by. Though I have to say I did post this in may of 2010.

I guess that's one way to keep disagreeing thoughts out of the free-thinkers cove.

I take offense to this. I have never deleted a single comment from my blog unless it was posted by a advertising robot. I have allowed all kinds of thought on this blog and encourage anyone who wants to submit a thought to do so. And not just in comments but in posts. I invite you to write whatever you like troy and I will post it unedited on the top of my site! I have never suppressed opinion here and I hope I never do.

Troy said...

Well I still resent you tagging my comment as racism, and referring me to a liberal blogger that links his racists evidence to media matters videos isn't substantial enough evidence to convince me. Although I regularly watch Fox News, I've never heard of Crowder and its unfortunate that Fox gives a voice people such as him.

I heard of the Obama phone first from el Rushbo, who you liberals love to hate, mostly because I think the truth hurts!

I'm still not sure what is racist about the video. A black women is speaking of her political beliefs. I'm not sure she was coached or paid to say the things she said. I don't really care what color or sex the person is who said it, its not a shocking fact that there is a growing population of Americans who demand the government take care of them., and those people will vote dor Obama. Its mostly common sense and to be tagged as racism just because you don't like the truth behind your own message is gutless and cowardess. Its also a tactict used by liberals to discredit and shout down dissenting voices. Accuse the tea party and Romney of racism, wanting to take away womens rights and give 500 trillion dollar tax credits to the top 1%. Lie about your oppents record and then you don't have to talk about the lack of your own.

Anywat, I appreciate you admitting your lack of posts on Islam. I look forward to your thoughts!